What were you doing back in the early 90s before the Free State?

Well, I was actually just a busy housewife, taking care of my family. Up and down to the Pollok Centre, just the usual shopping days, and I used to see this camp at the Barrhead Road and I used to wonder what it was all about. Then I seen Colin’s photograph in the paper, this madman up a tree, supposed to have been, you know? And I read what he was saying and I totally agreed with everything he was saying, so I was a bit shy in going into the camp at first and I used to go up and down in the taxi and go: “Right, this is it!” I’d got loads of shopping, stopped the taxi at the Barrhead Road and said: “This is it, I’m going for it!” Walked in to the camp and Colin was there and just gave me a big hello: “How you doin” there?” you know? (laughs) “How’s it goin’? Come in and get a cup of tea and ...” He just asked me where I lived and what I thought of what was happening down there. And fae that day I never turned back. Him and Gehan, they used to never get rid of me then. I was down there all the time. Never got rid of me. Day and night. Used to get my housework done quick in the morning and then away down to the camp, just to see how everybody was, see if they had enough to eat. The Pastie Woman, they used to call me, you see? I used to go to Gregg’s and take the pasties down: “Here’s the pastie woman coming!” they’d all shout, you know? Aye, good days. A hard life down there for them, you know? But they fought it out. They stuck it out well and ... Just having a look back fae that, I met them, you know? And I totally agreed with everything they said.

When I was a wee girl they called it the Bundie, just at the Pollok ... Just where the big shopping centre is just now. And they had a wood and I played up in that wood fae when I was a wee girl and then I got married and they destroyed it. They pulled some of the trees down and I thought: “What can I do about this? There’s nothing I can do about this!” you know? And it was just such a beautiful wood, full of Bluebells and we used to go up there all the time to play. Making dens and everything. And then when I heard Colin shouting about the Pollok Park, I thought: “Right, I’m down there. I’m going to see what he’s all about. He’s talking my language,” kind of thing, you know? And fae that day I never looked back. He was just an amazing person, the best person you could ever meet, you know? Every time you walked in it’s: “Get the kettle on, get a clean cup for the woman!” you know? No matter if it was all chipped, it was a clean cup anyway! The kettle ... Gehan always had a big pot of something on. No matter when you went down, there was always something cooking. Really friendly people, you know? Stuck to their guns. That’s the kind of people I like, speak their mind and ... Aye, they totally relaxed you when you walked in because it’s strange! I was a married woman. I was forty odd, walking into all these young ones and they took you for what you were. There were no airs or graces, you know? I used to walk in with my hair all done, the make-up on! (laughs) ... the high heels!

I heard you had a lot of admirers!

Oh, is that right? Well ... I’ll say nothing about that! (laughs) They used to try and push a barra. Colin would say to me: “Grab a barra Issy!” And trying to walk in these big high heels and he said to me: “The next time you come down, get a pair of good strong boots on!” I’m still wearing the boots to this day! Still wearing the boots to this day Colin. Aye ... Aye, so it was all go down there and a good lot. A lot of mixed people down there as well.

And what did, before the camp started, did Pollok mean to people? Like the park ...

Oh, Pollok meant a lot to all sorts down there, you know? I mean, we used to get lassies pushing their weans through Pollok Park, cutting through the golf course which you werenae supposed to do but, you know, we done it anyway! And it was only likes ... It was the only place the weans could play, was in that bit of wood. As I said to you before, years and years ago I used to play up in the wood and to see that getting pulled down was just a nightmare, you know? I mean, you used to see them going up and putting a swing up and the weans were just having a great time in the wood. It meant a lot to a lot of people, a lot of different things as well. A lot of memories. I mean, my pal’s father used to go up Pollok Park and he used to tell me stories, you know ... “Oh, yous are doing the right thing down there, well done yous. I wish I was a bit younger to be helping yous!” Cos he used to go down Pollok Park when he was a boy an” all. It was ... And then to think it’s gonna get pulled down right about you ... There’s nowhere for the weans to go or nothing so you had to put up a fight! Had to stand your ground kind of thing, you know?

So did a lot of your friends and neighbours agree with it?

Oh aye, yeah, uh huh. Most of Pollok came down. A lot of people didnae come down and wish they did come down when they seen it on the ... Cos they were building new houses at the time and they used to say: “Oh we’re getting double glazing Issy.’, “Double glazing is nothing. You’re still going to hear all this racket!” And true. I met a guy I knew going through the shopping centre, he said: “You’re right enough Issy. The noise is terrible fae that motorway!” You know? They cannae sleep at night for traffic going up and down that motorway and they stayed a good bit away fae the motorway and said the noise was terrible even with double glazing.

So that’s like most of the bit at Corkerhill where the motorway goes right round the back ...?

Well, just at Priestshill. This guy came fae Priestshill and it was brand new houses they were building. They took his old house down for some reason and they were building these new, beautiful houses with double glazing and wee gardens and whatever. He said: “I wish I had listened to you and come down Pollok with you because what you said was right, was spot on, Issy and the noise up here’s terrible.” So that was him, you know?

Along with the road, there’s a lot of other issues that the Free State brought up to do with ... Part of the idea that Pollok’s owned by the people of Glasgow, it was given to the people of Glasgow. And there’s also this thing about people in their own communities standing up for themselves, organising themselves and ... How much did those things come across to other people?

Oh well, as you say, looking back on some of the photographs, some of the videos, you’ll see that. It meant a lot for people to come outside their doors and come down and stand and let the authorities know it wasn’t happening, you know? Aye, as I say, a lot of people come down and a lot of people didnae come down and the ones that did come down, good on them type of thing.

I think you told me when I first met you, when we were watching the videos, and you were saying that you used to take some of the kids back to your home and give them a wash and stuff?

Aye, that’s right. The Woman That Washes The Tree Babies, I was called then! (laughs) Aye, I used to just ... Och well, you done your bit. You done what you could do. If any weans were needing a wash you would take them up the road. It wasn’t a hassle or anything else, you’d just get them up the road and ... I mean, I had them all. Tawny was just a wee baby down there and Iona wasnae born at the time, she was just born when we left the Free State. There was Arran, used to take Arran up the road. Aye, get them all shining and take them back again. (laughs) You’d look at them the next day and go: “What was all that about?” But aye, used to take them up the road, give them something warm to eat and shove them in the bath and tie wee bobbles in their hair and that’d be that. And you’d take them back and they’d say: “What’s happened to my wean’s hair? What’s that bobble in my weans hair?” (laughs) That was Heather, aye. It was no problem at all. And I enjoyed it, you know? Cos they were good people.

And there was a lot ... I mean, I’ve seen from photos and everything else. There was a lot of kids that came from the local areas that seemed to be really ...

Aye, Corkerhill. Aye, cos they played down there. That was their haunt, their playing haunt. And young as they were, they understood what was happening, you know? Pulling all these ancient trees down. And good on them for doing that, for coming down and saying their bit and doing their wee bit, you know? They’d be there doing something as well, pushing a barra or ... I mean, everybody loved Colin. You just had to be around Colin and you got this kind of energy off him and everybody was wanting to help. Everybody ... “How you doing Colin? Can we do this for you?” Young ones ... Come down and just seeing what it was all about: “What can we do for you?” and ... well some of them were a pest right enough. Some of them were nuisances but most of them were alright and he always had a good word to say to them all. Explaining what was happening down there and trying to put them on the right track. He was always the same Colin, always had a kind word. Wouldnae pass you by, always had something to say to you no matter what it was, you know? Aye, some boy. I mind the first time, he was standing under a tree, carving, that peaceful. Beautiful guy. Something about him that you said to yourself: “Oh, I’ll need to get to know you!” Just something about the boy. And at that time, it was all fighting here and fighting there and battles here with Pollok crew and all that carry on and to go down there and see Colin just standing ... A young man, carving away. It was excellent. I’ll never forget that first time I seen him carving under there. I was in awe of him. It sounds stupid but it had a kind of calming effect on them as well. Calmed me down a lot, aye. God love him.

So what did the Pollok crew kids make of it as well? Like the harder kids.

Och, some of them would just laugh and call them hippies and that but most of them were fine. Most of them knew what was going on, you know? I suppose he had his time with them and all, come down at night ... Horrible ones, you know? Threw them out the camp and I don’t suppose he would like that.

Was there any bad stand offs or was it more just a bit of ...

Just a bit of banter with them, you know? Shouting and bawling at them: “Hippies” and: “Away and get a wash!” Which wasnae very nice to hear because they were down trying to save the place and nobody had baths or ... Well, they could wash but they didnae have a bath or anything like that. But the smell of smoke off them all as well, it was great! (laughs)

And one thing that Danny was telling me about, Danny Alderslowe, how Colin started up having classes and workshops and ...

That’s right, aye. Used to have a wee bit of carving here and a wee bit of carving there. I mean, I mind one time I was ... I used to run a lot, right? And I used to maybe go out for my jog in the evening and maybe end up at the camp! (laughs) And I mind Colin was ... boards of wood or something like that. He said: “Issy..” He’d got a couple of guys and he was one guy short. He said: “Do you fancy ... ?” I had my running gear on and running shoes with the reflectors on them. He said: “Do you fancy coming and giving us a hand?” I said: “Nae bother!” Didnae want to say no to the boy, you know? So it was snowing too and we were carrying big boards, falling down holes, just to build this wee hut thing and I ended up helping them build that as well: “Can you hammer a nail?” You were up on ladders and cutting ... Aye, he was a good guy. Aye ...

Do you think it would’ve worked if Colin wasn’t there?

No. I don’t think so.

Did he hold it together?

He was the man, he done it, you know? He’d a way with people. He could talk to anybody, could talk to the devil, and make them understand what it was all about. He had a way about him, the man. He could talk to anybody.

Did you take part in any of the stuff in the city? Did you go up to any of the protests?

I did, aye. I went on the big Poll Tax thing as well, and they all ended up in the Free State and I don’t know how many was in there. There was loads and they catered for everybody, gave them meals and cups of tea and ... Aye, don’t know how much I can say about that. Just done a protest and I think it went fine, you know? Ended up back in the Free State, the load of them. Drums and God knows, floats and everything ... banners! But it was a good atmosphere and they were welcome down there, you know?

Did people see ... ? Just thinking back to more local people and that, did they see connections between the Poll Tax issues and the Free State and there was also the Criminal Justice Bill?

That’s right, aye. Well, it was a totally different thing altogether. They were trying to save the trees, then Poll Tax, then that. But I think it all stems ... Standing up for yourself, no letting people stand on top of you. If you think you’re right, get on with it, you know? I think it all comes fae that and as I say, Colin was a good speaker and got on well ... Just was all kind of connected if you know what I mean? Everything was connected: “You cannae let them away with it. This is our bit of land here,” kind of a thing and Poll Tax ... It all kind of goes round about the same area, the same way.

Did you know Walter Morrison? Did you meet him?

I did, aye. No really well, but I knew him, aye. He’d be sitting down there and Bettie, his brother, wee Ronnie, you know? We all used to go down as well. Walter done a good job there as well for speaking up for people, you know? Corkerhill Mob. Aye, he was a good friend for Colin as well. The two of them got on great, the same level I think, wavelength. They knew what one and other were talking about. I think when you have a friend like that, that is a friend. You can sit and discuss things with them and they know exactly what you’re talking about, fighting for the same cause.

Cos one thing that seems really strong about it is that there’s lots of different ages involved and ...

Aye, it was amazing. It was an amazing place. You wouldnae believe it. You’d have to have been there to see it. Different types ... I met loads of people, a lot of good people and a lot of nae gooders, if you know what I mean? People fae all over the world came down there and it was just amazing. I’m a wee Pollok woman and to go down there and meet this one and meet that one, I mean ... All for a wee bit of wood! And it was all for him. It was for him, it was for ... Come down and listen to Colin and him shouting about Pollok Park and ... He was just an amazing guy to get all that response from people, you know? Amazing guy. Politicians ... You wouldnae believe the people that come down there, writers, all sorts, and just took them as they got them, sit at the fire with us having a cup of tea, something to eat. Gehan always had a big pot of something going, you know? Good banter off everybody and right good conversations at night round the fire and I mind we were talking about the GalGael at that time and what they were going to call it, the GalGael, and what does it mean? Aye. I mean, look what he’s done just fae the Pollok Free State that started it all! I suppose it started before that but that just came up. The Pollok Free State just come up and he stood his ground about that, you know? I think in that way he always had a vision of doing something like this, boat building or doing something. There was always something on his mind. He couldnae sit on his backside for two minutes without: “Gehan, what do you think of this?’, “Gehan, what do you make of this?” and poor Gehan got it nearly every night I think, you know? Aye, there was always something new to do or: “What do you think of this?” or: “Will we do this Gehan?” I don’t know how the boy slept at night. His brain must’ve been overworked with the things he had on his mind.

Did you go to that Wolf Night and some of those events?

I did, aye. Aye, they were brilliant nights as well.

Could you describe it, the Wolf Night? That’s the time when the Chief from Seattle came over? Or was that another night?

The Wolf Night was amazing, just everybody was in good cheer and it was a really lovely night if I can mind right. I cannae think ...

Was the totem made? And the carvings?

The totem ...? The Wolf Night, was that the one Alasdair came? Alasdair read a poem and everyone was so ... I can’t explain how ... A kind of warm feeling, you know? I can’t actually explain it. It was just a lovely feeling. Everybody knew one another and everybody was happy and it was just excellent. I cannae say anything else about it. It was just a wonderful night, you know? But every night was great. There was always something going on or ... No every night would be great. I’m talking ... I didnae live down there. I only went down visiting. I didnae actually stay down there, you know? It was hard but it seemed to be ... It was alright to go down and say your bit and do something or ... I’m going away off track again, aren’t I?

No, it’s good. What was the winter like?

Oh, the winters were hard, very hard. I mean, I mind one winter it was snowing really, really ... And Colin’s beard used to freeze up! (laughs) Colin’s beard used to freeze up and I mind one guy had frostbite on his toe. I think he fell asleep and his toe was out the bender. We had to get him to hospital, but aye, it was some winters down there. But then they put up a fight and they stuck it out. I mind they had a Christmas down there as well. They had their wee Christmas tree and they done their bit down there, you know? Really hard I suppose and food-wise as well cos ... I think people used to take bags of messages down for them and the public were good with them and all, I think. Of course I took my pasties down as well! (laughs) Made sure they were alright that way. Aye, I think somebody took them down a Christmas dinner, if I mind right. For Christmas somebody took a big Christmas dinner down for them, Christmas pudding, the lot. I think Gehan’s got a photo of them all sitting at their Christmas table down at the Free State, hats and balloons! (laughs) Aye, but there you are. They struggled and they got on with it, pouring rain, hailstones, the lot. And that fire was never out. They always had that big fire. That was just ... I mind one time says to me: “Issy ... “ They were going to watch a video or something and I had been down and he said: “Issy, will you keep an eye on the fire?” I went: “Aye, nae bother!” I thought it was great, Colin asked me to look after the fire cos it’s never to go out, you know? And I’d be chopping bits of wood and trying my best to keep this fire going, you know? And I heard: “Och, he’s kidding you on! He’s pulling your leg just to keep you occupied down there!” kind of a thing. I was saying: “I’d better keep this fire going till they come back,” you know? Always a fire going. Great fire builder. You’d go down frozen ... Even ... You’re going down, some of those people are fed up. You’d just go down and Colin would chat away. Just to sit there at the fire talking, even listening to them ... Listening to Colin talking and you’d go: “He’s some boy that!” Aye, miss him terrible. He was my pal, you see? Best pal, buddies.

Were you there at the end when the camp ... ?

Aye. I was there at the night when the camp broke up.

What was that like?

Well, I was very sad. I thought it was sad but life goes on. It was getting harder down there with the motorway running by and the weans were ... Wee Iona was just born as well at that time so they had to make a break for it. Other things to do, GalGael to set up. But it was sad. Sad to see all the treehouses getting pulled down and people saying their cheerios to one another and thinking: “Crikey! I’m no gonna see you again, am I? Yous are going to do something else,” you know? And I was always worried in case Colin and Gehan and the weans would move away somewhere. They would go away up north and ... That never happened, thank God, but that was always on your mind: “Are they gonnae move away and I’ll no see them again?” you know? I suppose you would keep in touch with them but at that time your heart’s breaking because you’re losing a lot of friends and people you’ve got to know over the last couple of years. Cos I was down there just about every day, you know? Although I had my own family and all, I was down there ... Couldn’t get things organised quick till I was away down, just to be in amongst it because I liked the folk. The folk were brand new, took you as you were. Just walk in and the teapot was on, they were great folk. I never ever thought I’d be like that, you know? I’m away fae all that, you know? And then meeting a new line of friends. I mean, all my pals were all housewives and done their hair up and with their makeup on and all that and to sit around about a fire with young ones ... It was just great and I agreed with everything they said and it was just ... I don’t know. I cannae explain it, I just fitted in. I just fitted in with them all, I think! (laughs) Nobody’s told me any different! Aye, great bunch of folk. Fought well, done the right thing ... And now we’ve saved that bit of wood anyway! If it wasnae for them, that would be away. There’d be nothing, it’d be the motorway. So we’ve saved that wee bit and we still all go down. We were down a few months ago and cleared the place, litter that was lying about, and there’s still a good feeling down there. Funnily enough there’s still that wee buzz every time I go down. All the memories that are down there, the good times and the bad times. But there you are.

So you did stop some of the motorway? Because people say that it didn’t work but that’s not true.

Oh aye, but that wee bit of wood was supposed to be away. They were going to take that away but they stood their ground and they saved that. That’s how ... We’ve got to go down and look after it now, it’s a legacy. Keep it nice for folk to come. There’s still a lot folk come and say: “You going down the Free State?” you know? “Let’s go down and see what’s happening down there!” It’s kind of a meeting place for us. Have our gossips and ... Aye.

What do you think the Free State gave to Glasgow, to the people of Glasgow, in terms of its spirit? Do you think it’s had a kind of legacy beyond ... ? I mean, obviously there’s the GalGael but beyond that as well. Do you think from all the people that came and experienced it ... ?

Och aye. I still meet people and they still talk about the Pollok and ... As I say, every ... Nearly every person I meet, they talk about: “How’s it going? How’s this one? How’s that one?” Aye, you know: “Yous have done well saving that bit and blah, blah, blah.” Oh aye, it’s nice. When they go by on the bus and they see it and ... I mind everybody saying: “Oh, we used to look in there and we used to say ’Oh I wish we could go down!’” And I said: “Well, why don’t you come down?” you know? “Get your act together and get down there and see what’s happening!” And half of them did. A lot of them did come down, through just curiosity. I mean, you see people like that, you shy away from them because you don’t know what to expect but once you get down there you’re alright. Everybody was dead friendly. Aye, so they still talk about the Free State, the people on the Free State. The Tree People, as they call them: “How’s your Tree People? Do you still keep in contact with them, the tree huggers?” You know? I say: “Aye, they’ve moved on now. They’re doing well, the tree huggers. Aye.”

Do you think there’s any ... ? Do you think there’s any message or lessons from the Free State that’s relevant to what’s happening now? The way that Glasgow’s changing now and stuff?

Well, just to stand your ground and if you think you’re right, as Colin did, don’t let them get away with it. Shout! Let yourself be heard, you know?